|
|
Post by shoey109 on Feb 16, 2011 18:28:28 GMT -5
Temis...we don't want to use 3 tank companies. Tank companies will get you killed from the preliminary bombardment. I have no idea where you even came up with the thought that we wanted to use 2...let alone 3. I was referring to the mission rule as a whole. Since you were unhappy about the limit of 2 tank platoons per non tank company. Now...here is an actual, valid idea. How about this Friday, we change rolls. The Axis are now attacking and the Allies are defending. Axis make a 1750 list, Allies 1325. We'll use the unmodified rules so as to make it exactly the same as last week. This way, we can can all see what the other side is talking about. I believe it will give of of us a better idea of what the other is talking about. I think if we do this, it would help us work on the scenario in a more conducive manner. I will make my list right away. Me and Jeremy against Temis and New Steve. Will |
|
|
|
Post by shoey109 on Feb 16, 2011 18:39:54 GMT -5
Well, at lest all the fervor over the Big Push has moved us into third place (just above Board Games) in the most posted section of the forum!!!! Most of the post is hot air coming from Temis. I find most of his post as comical rhetoric and wasted bandwidth. Will |
|
|
|
Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 21:07:20 GMT -5
Temis...we don't want to use 3 tank companies. Tank companies will get you killed from the preliminary bombardment. I have no idea where you even came up with the thought that we wanted to use 2...let alone 3. I was referring to the mission rule as a whole. Since you were unhappy about the limit of 2 tank platoons per non tank company. Now...here is an actual, valid idea. How about this Friday, we change rolls. The Axis are now attacking and the Allies are defending. Axis make a 1750 list, Allies 1325. We'll use the unmodified rules so as to make it exactly the same as last week. This way, we can can all see what the other side is talking about. I believe it will give of of us a better idea of what the other is talking about. I think if we do this, it would help us work on the scenario in a more conducive manner. Jeremy In your post #165 you said" that the rule on limiting tanks was same disadvantge to both sides . I don't think thats correct I believe that it hurt the attacker a great deal more. I made the remark about the three Armored companies not because I thought for one second that you the defenders would want to use them (the way the prelim bombardement works out you would be foolish to do so since tanks are more vulnerable than Infantry). Rather I said it make a point. We the attackers might want to use three armor companies or maybe three companies wtih to many tank plts in them(given the current definition of what is a tank). It seems to me that that the attacker is put at a disadvantage by the rule that the defender is not.  |
|
|
|
Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 22:54:42 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat Temis. It's my Sunday afternoon, one I usually spend with my wife. I only get 2 day off per week...this being one of them. Otherwise, I'll be working about 50 hours between my job and Triple Play. Forgive me I'd like to a chance at winning. Even you have said the greatest enemy is time...NOT GERMANS. You keep on referencing this. All of the battles that have been played ended in draws due to TIME. They ended where the attacker was breaking the lines agaisnt a much thinned out German defender. As far as Will and Steve's game...you were not there. You didn't see how it went. Therefore you can't judge. Steve used the fortifications against Will. He sat behind them and systematically mowed Will's guys down with impunity. Will was in a no-win situation. And if you'd like we can swap sides if you think the defenders have that much of an advantage. I'll play Americans and you can use Germans. I agree with you 100% time has indeed been the real enemy in recent week However I disagree with you that that they should all be judged draws becaue they were not played to conclusion. 1st game Me against Original Steve and Will a draw for certain due to time And the game was far from decided. could have gone either way. game 2 you and Will vs "New" steve and Mike the game was again called on account of time. But I don't think that the allies could have won if they had played on for a 100 more turns. Most of the Allied armor was dead, alot of the american Infantry was dead or running and the spotter for the Preists was dead. I think it was clearly a win for the defenders Game 3 Me, New Steve and Mike vs Brad and Steve? not sure now. WE just got to the 4th turn when time ran out but I was not confident about our chances(3000 poinys vs 2400). I had lost 1/2 my Infantry already " New " steves Infantry and tanks were siting by the wire getting shot up and his engeeners and bull dozers had arrived at the wire but Brad had pinned the eneeners and bailed the dozers which ment there wasn't much they could do(they would need to start the turn unpinned and not bailed to act in that turn.) Maybe we could have salvaged things with more timeb ut but I was not optomistic. The Best option left to us was to force my crocs across the minefield and hope that I was lucky. I think the game ended with advantage defender. You are correct I did not see Will and "New" Steves battle. I have relied on what Will has wrote. But I am not sure how your explanation really differs from my conclusions. You said that Will made mistakes with his set up the minefields and then got shot up by Steves MGs. However this ties in with my explanation that Will was unlucky. For Steve to have shot up Wills infantry he should have needed a 6 to hit that infantry, for Will to miss a 3+ save, and lastly a 6 for the fire power hard kill(or 5+ for the 50 cali.bers). Will himself said in one of his posts that Steve was really lucky rolling 6s. My conclusion without seeing the battle was that will suffered from bad luck, and then he surrendered. The only thing that your observation can add to it is that he made a mistale on set up I do not see anything in your comments that Indicates that Will lost because the situation he found himself in was so one sided. That Will found himself in a No win situaation" he made a mistake on his set up Oh yes it appears that Steve used his AOP wrong allowing it to spot for all his guns when he should have limited it to those with Staff teams |
|
|
|
Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 23:17:35 GMT -5
Well this day has been great fun an who knows at this rate I might be a god by Memorial day buttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was never that enthused with the big push/trench warfare scenarios to begin with and I am beginning to annoy people so I think I will put on my 10 gallon hat , opps sombrero, and ride off into the sunset. In other words I do not intend to play for the nex to Fridays or on the 27th.
Y ;Du all have fun and see you in March.
Jeremy while I think it would be great fun to play you and will on Friday as the defenders I can not speak for "New" Steve.
|
|
|
|
Post by Easy86 on Feb 17, 2011 7:49:42 GMT -5
Oh yes it appears that Steve used his AOP wrong allowing it to spot for all his guns when he should have limited it to those with Staff teams Yes I do have an apology to make. Having never used the AOP before I was miscorrect in using it as a spotter for my Armored mortars. After going home and talking to temis, and then doing a little searching I found that I had made that mistake. Which made sense to me, I was like no wonder that was so awesome. So, Will I apologize for making that silly mistake, and that because of that, it made things a little ridiculous |
|
|
|
Post by FaithandFire on Feb 17, 2011 9:21:37 GMT -5
Hey, we are all gathering on Fridays to play a hobby we all enjoy and to have a bit of competition, fun, and social banter. I would suggest we not question anyone's motives. Besides, we are too small a group to alienate any one of us!!
We tend to have a bit of a void in terms of organizing our games and I tend to rush in and fill that void when no one else does. I really don't want to dominate the group or force people into a direction they do not want to go. We destroy the group and we end up pushing toy soldiers around alone in our basements.
As I mentioned before, our tweaks were in an effort to respond to our play testing and people's comments and concerns.
As always, we should all feel free to opt out when a particular scenario or type of game is not to our liking.
The last thing New Steve and I want to do is try to make people play a scenario they do not want to.
One possibility as I mentioned is to just play the Big Push scenario as written if that makes folks think they would have more fun. If there is something else that folks would rather do on the 27th, lets work that out on Friday.
Otherwise, I think that at least New Steve and I would like to give the scenario a go on the 27th with whomever else may be interested.
|
|
|
|
Post by FaithandFire on Feb 17, 2011 9:25:39 GMT -5
Of cpurse, one WOULD expect an e-mail like the previous one, from a guy with a Karma rating of 9.
As Brad said, "Why can't we be friends..."
Or, better yet..... "Kum bya ya my Lord....."
|
|
|
|
Post by pinecoffin on Feb 17, 2011 21:09:55 GMT -5
You know, I'm glad I was out of town and then working my butt off all week to catch up at work and MISSED ALL THIS CRAP! Now if you guys would put all this energy into starting games as early as possible and playing scenarios we could actually finish in one evening then I would think we are getting somewhere!
See you Friday night with my illegal list! I'm ready to play. :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by Easy86 on Feb 22, 2011 8:30:29 GMT -5
From Steve's Email
"As for Sunday, how would 10AM work for a start time? Plan to go until about 5? We will try to get as organized as we can to get a "quick" start but as we have seen it does take some time to set up the fortifications, etc.
What I gather as feedback from last Friday is to go with even 1750 point forces, lose the axis ambush, keep the axis scattered reserves. There was some mention of 1500 point axis forces being fine. Maybe we can build in something about granting the Axis side a VP or two if they do not deploy all of their reserves - reward for keeping reserves uncommitted so they can be used elsewhere? Of course, not if the uncommitted reserve force is a platoon consisting of one or two HMG teams!
Axis delayed reserves - each axis player gets his own reserve dice and may only bring on reserves from his own force. "
I would like to avoid over editing the scenario. We should do minimal changes and then play test it on sunday and see how it goes. please let me know of the above statement so we can make the changes.
|
|
|
|
Post by pinecoffin on Feb 22, 2011 9:12:55 GMT -5
10:00 is fine for me on Sunday.
I played as the defender last week with 1500 points. My list was Brit Paratroopers so they were fearless veterans. I was quite happy with how I did. The germans had two tigers. I took out one of them. The game might have gone either way but the immediate challenge for me would have been to take out the one remaining tiger. If I could do that I'd have a fighting chance. But it was a slog fest. It wasn't easy for either side. I didn't do an ambush as I didn't know about it. If it was an immediate ambush it wouldn't have made a difference. If it was any old ambush then who knows. I've never pulled them off too successfully.
All in all it was a very fun game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Easy86 on Feb 22, 2011 11:16:49 GMT -5
Okay considering the statistics and the numbers, and how often people are likely to make the saves for infantry teams, and considering the Germans will have to defend 6 objectives on a 6x4 board: I have a suggestion.
1500 with at least 25% in delayed reserve (not scattered) (approximately 1125 points on the table starting, i.e. 3375 defender points on the board starting), and the defending team may place may place two platoons (of the 75% that can be on the table) in ambush (which would mean they arent subject to the preliminary bombardment). And awarding the Germans the one or two victory points per platoon that stayed in reserve under the premice that they would be needed "elsewhere." And steve's point: Axis delayed reserves - each axis player gets his own reserve dice and may only bring on reserves from his own force.
This would give a little bit of a point swing as the defenders do have an advantage being in defensive positions. The ambush platoons (no subject to pre lim bombardment) balance out what might be taken out in the pre lim. Delayed reserves because as jeremy has mentioned the germans would have a fair Idea of where they would need to send there support.
Or we can do 1750 with at least 25% in reserves (about 1300 points on the table, i.e. 3900 team points starting) with one platoon for the defending team in ambush and scattered reserves. (there is a chance that you may lose more teams during the preliminary bombardment with more on the table). And awarding the Germans the one or two victory points per platoon that stayed in reserve under the premice that they would be needed "elsewhere." And steve's point: Axis delayed reserves - each axis player gets his own reserve dice and may only bring on reserves from his own force.
(do you want to drop the ambush)
Everyones Thoughts? I would like to finalize the game plan by tomorrow morning... This should give you all one more chance to weigh in.
were there any issues with allowing players to field AOP in their lists but no regular airplanes? Can germans field AOP's? Remember both sides are being provided air for the game, which means you can use the air for fighter interception.
|
|
scorchmark
Greenhorn
When facing defeat, leave nothing for the enemy!
Posts: 66
|
Post by scorchmark on Feb 22, 2011 21:34:58 GMT -5
I cant wait to play ^_^ I thought this last week's game was really good. I cant wait to see what everyone fields come game day. A tank hunter company would be pretty sick.
|
|
|
|
Post by shoey109 on Feb 22, 2011 23:01:31 GMT -5
I like the 1750 points with ambush, Scattered reserves, and preliminary bombardment.
Will
|
|
|
|
Post by Easy86 on Feb 23, 2011 7:52:29 GMT -5
Acknowledged will.
Any one else got final weigh ins?
Any issues with the AOP? Can Germans Field AOP's?
|
|
