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Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 14:55:33 GMT -5
It really is quite funny or as Alanis might say "Isn,t it Ironic" I signed on last night about 11pm thinking that I might quit.
But then Will said he was quiting and I thoughy maybe I should switch sides and play the German side(although that would lead to silly game, a German King Tiger company on the allied side).
In anycase I believe that the scenario is unbalanced In the defenders favor and all the Steve's squared have done recently is to make the situation worse.
Jeremy your assesment of the points is correct so far as it goes, the problem is that the defenders should be able to use their fortification to make sure that all of the attackers 5000+ points are not reaching them at the same time.
The Track record of the games to this point supports my conclusion although time has been the greatest enemy of attackers so far. The allies have won victory but that was only becauase, Will retreated and then gave up a laudable strategy in real life but not a way to win a FOW game.
Further I believe that Will was a vitum of bad luck on his part and good luck on "New" Steves (all those succesful MG fip success for hard kill)
Other than that the allied record is pretty poor I might have won the first game we ever played but at the end Will'reinfocement were pouring on the table and will could have use his rocket launchers to destroy most of my army except my heavy tanks and force compay moale check.
Two weeks ago the attacker was not doing that well when time was called, maybe my Churchills would have made it across the minefield but "New' Steves army was getting chewed up.
In anycase I object to the following about the scenario
Only 1 tank company Infantry is to slow and vulnerable to make across the fortifications with any real chance. In any case this hurts tha attackers far worse then the defender. If the defender wants to play all tank companies, since the tanks are far more vulnerable to the bombardment then Infany, I say let him In the playtest. scenarios Tanks are what has made the attacks move, Infantry has largely been butchered
Likewise the rule that an Ifantry company can have only two tank platoon same reasion.
The hidden victory points I don't fully understand how they work out but it appears that we will not know which objectives are valuable till the game is over. I really dislike playing blind as to how I can win the game.
Lastly a minor point but I really dislike your selection of the P-47 of all the allied Aircraft available this or the kittyhawk is by far the weakest choice. The typhoon would be a much better choice.
Lastly I would point out to Jeremy that disparity in air is commen in LW only in Dog Devils and fortress Europa do the Germans have the chance to buy limited air support
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Post by FaithandFire on Feb 16, 2011 15:09:44 GMT -5
Yeah, lets hash it out (briefly) on Friday.
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Post by FaithandFire on Feb 16, 2011 15:11:31 GMT -5
Well, at lest all the fervor over the Big Push has moved us into third place (just above Board Games) in the most posted section of the forum!!!!
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Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 15:16:31 GMT -5
Please define for me what is a Tank? under your definition some MBT's (Sherman's,Panthers,and tigers) are fairly simple. But your Scots are rated as Assault guns and I believe that Battlefront would say they are not a tank.
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Post by jeremy3play on Feb 16, 2011 15:57:43 GMT -5
Temis,
Everything in the game is broken up into sections. These sections are as follows:
Tank Teams
Gun Teams
Infantry Teams
Transport Teams
Aircraft
If the selection you want is under the tank section...it is a tank team/platoon. Even the M8 Scott is a tank team. StuG are tank teams as well. Priests also fall under the heading of tank teams. Check any of the books, turn to the back and it will have the breakdown you need.
Lastly, I would like to point out to Fortress Europa is the main book for LW. Other books are additional/theater specific and allow you make a specific force/army that is tied to that battle/engagement.
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Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 16:25:48 GMT -5
Temis, Everything in the game is broken up into sections. These sections are as follows: Tank Teams Gun Teams Infantry Teams Transport Teams Aircraft If the selection you want is under the tank section...it is a tank team/platoon. Even the M8 Scott is a tank team. StuG are tank teams as well. Priests also fall under the heading of tank teams. Check any of the books, turn to the back and it will have the breakdown you need. Lastly, I would like to point out to Fortress Europa is the main book for LW. Other books are additional/theater specific and allow you make a specific force/army that is tied to that battle/engagement. You would appear to be correct However, that is another thing I dislike about this scenario and that I would like changed. Since buying Bofors as AA protection is sort of worthless(they will be hard to move and keep up with any advance. Add it to my list of what I do not like. |
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Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 16:31:25 GMT -5
Well, at lest all the fervor over the Big Push has moved us into third place (just above Board Games) in the most posted section of the forum!!!! I think we have been above board games for a while and have not move up in the last few days but I am not 100% certain about that  We are more than 60 posts ahead of them |
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Post by FaithandFire on Feb 16, 2011 16:31:53 GMT -5
We are really talking Tank Companies and Platoons (or companies for the SOviets) and not talking tank teams. Platoons with halftracks or with armored cars or vehcile mounted AA guns or self propelled artillery are not Tank platoons (unless listed as so in the army books).
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scorchmark
Greenhorn
When facing defeat, leave nothing for the enemy!
Posts: 66
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Post by scorchmark on Feb 16, 2011 16:39:09 GMT -5
How about we work on lists of what we DO like, and what we think would benefit the game. Instead of just what we dont like. I think the Steves have worked pretty hard on this we owe them at least that. Lol they'll never want to design a scenario for our fun ever again  Just saying, as far as limited company types go. Temis I am sure New Steve probably wants to field a lot of infantry/pioneers. So he probably wouldnt have a problem with you being the armor company. It's called combined arms, and it works REALLY well. Now I dont have much experience in FoW so excuse me if I am getting into something I shouldnt. But I know for a fact in any military game I have ever played defenders have a natural advantage... even with fewer numbers. It is far easier to defend a position rather then attack it. Especially since we only have to hold out for what 9 turns? I know us defenders need to worry about prelim bombardment. But with all the fortifications... yes even useless barbwire. If used correctly we can slow down the advance quite a bit. Even if we did lose a 1/6th of our forces to prelim I honestly dont see that as a problem (maybe thats just me) The main complaint I am hearing from axis players would be the point cap. Is there any chance we could raise the caps? I mean the defenders wont kill all the attackers anyway so it doesnt really matter how huge their army is. What about 1750 to 2000? This would make it so defenders could get those expensive flashy things they want, and Allies would still have more numbers. Lets stay positive guys! lol *que's the why cant we be friends song* PS - Prelim hit's on a 4? what if we changed it to a 5? Just ideas. Sorry if anything I say is just plain stupid. I dont mean to mess with the game mechanics. But I am sure there are plenty of options we have right? |
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Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 16:41:24 GMT -5
We are really talking Tank Companies and Platoons (or companies for the SOviets) and not talking tank teams. Platoons with halftracks or with armored cars or vehcile mounted AA guns or self propelled artillery are not Tank platoons (unless listed as so in the army books).  trucks with the awkward layout  |
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Post by jeremy3play on Feb 16, 2011 16:57:53 GMT -5
All of the books do that to all nations. I've just checked several they are all like that. Therefore, there is no advantage/disadvantage to either side. However I do see this being an issue. I would suggest raising it to a maximum of 3 platoons that are rated as tank teams instead of 2 per non-tank company.
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Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 17:11:37 GMT -5
How about we work on lists of what we DO like, and what we think would benefit the game. Instead of just what we dont like. I think the Steves have worked pretty hard on this we owe them at least that. Lol they'll never want to design a scenario for our fun ever again Just saying, as far as limited company types go. Temis I am sure New Steve probably wants to field a lot of infantry/pioneers. So he probably wouldnt have a problem with you being the armor company. It's called combined arms, and it works REALLY well. Now I dont have much experience in FoW so excuse me if I am getting into something I shouldnt. But I know for a fact in any military game I have ever played defenders have a natural advantage... even with fewer numbers. It is far easier to defend a position rather then attack it. Especially since we only have to hold out for what 9 turns? I know us defenders need to worry about prelim bombardment. But with all the fortifications... yes even useless barbwire. If used correctly we can slow down the advance quite a bit. Even if we did lose a 1/6th of our forces to prelim I honestly dont see that as a problem (maybe thats just me) The main complaint I am hearing from axis players would be the point cap. Is there any chance we could raise the caps? I mean the defenders wont kill all the attackers anyway so it doesnt really matter how huge their army is. What about 1750 to 2000? This would make it so defenders could get those expensive flashy things they want, and Allies would still have more numbers. Lets stay positive guys! lol *que's the why cant we be friends song* PS - Prelim hit's on a 4? what if we changed it to a 5? Just ideas. Sorry if anything I say is just plain stupid. I dont mean to mess with the game mechanics. But I am sure there are plenty of options we have right? Brad My problem is that in playing this game the defenders have had an advantage the the results of the games we have played so far as been a pretty clear defender advantage. The only clear attacker win has been New"Steve" vs Will and from what I can from the battle report Will had luck decoded to run and then gave up. Unlike you who fought to the last Man. Unlike Jeremy and Will (maybe you?) I think that defender has a major advantage. I think that it was uncalled for the referees to start tinkering so much with the balance. dthe results did not justify it I have spent a month getting ready for this battle and I am concerned that I will waste a whole sunday afternoon watching my side lose badly. I could have taken the tank company but if I had, given the definition of what a tank is, I would have really hurt "New" steve , to much of his army counts as tanks. I am sorry I can not be more upbeat about the game. It really bothers me that the Steves have ignored the results of the test games in tinkering with the balacne of the game, that they decided to change the scenario for the fanalie (it really is a very different game) and then waited untill tofay to make the decision to play test it |
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Post by kv1e on Feb 16, 2011 17:15:13 GMT -5
All of the books do that to all nations. I've just checked several they are all like that. Therefore, there is no advantage/disadvantage to either side. However I do see this being an issue. I would suggest raising it to a maximum of 3 platoons that are rated as tank teams instead of 2 per non-tank company. I would suggest just doing away with the restriction. If you guy want to run three Tank companys more power to you |
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Post by jeremy3play on Feb 16, 2011 17:22:53 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat Temis. It's my Sunday afternoon, one I usually spend with my wife. I only get 2 day off per week...this being one of them. Otherwise, I'll be working about 50 hours between my job and Triple Play. Forgive me I'd like to a chance at winning. Even you have said the greatest enemy is time...NOT GERMANS. You keep on referencing this. All of the battles that have been played ended in draws due to TIME. They ended where the attacker was breaking the lines agaisnt a much thinned out German defender.
As far as Will and Steve's game...you were not there. You didn't see how it went. Therefore you can't judge. Steve used the fortifications against Will. He sat behind them and systematically mowed Will's guys down with impunity. Will was in a no-win situation.
And if you'd like we can swap sides if you think the defenders have that much of an advantage. I'll play Americans and you can use Germans.
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Post by jeremy3play on Feb 16, 2011 18:17:57 GMT -5
Temis...we don't want to use 3 tank companies. Tank companies will get you killed from the preliminary bombardment. I have no idea where you even came up with the thought that we wanted to use 2...let alone 3.
I was referring to the mission rule as a whole. Since you were unhappy about the limit of 2 tank platoons per non tank company.
Now...here is an actual, valid idea. How about this Friday, we change rolls. The Axis are now attacking and the Allies are defending. Axis make a 1750 list, Allies 1325. We'll use the unmodified rules so as to make it exactly the same as last week. This way, we can can all see what the other side is talking about. I believe it will give of of us a better idea of what the other is talking about. I think if we do this, it would help us work on the scenario in a more conducive manner.
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trucks with the awkward layout 