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Post by hardihar on May 24, 2010 15:03:20 GMT -5
A single Vampire lord will be around 450 points.
each additional vampire hero is 200.
so a vamp lord and 2 support characters is 850 points. even a Wight Lord in support is 157.
the Vamps have always been dependent upon the characters and the army is designed that way, both for fluff and inorder to be different from the other armies.
Anyway you look at it, until a new vamp book comes out the list is going to have essentially a general running around alone, or a vamplord naked with support. either way an even bigger target gets painted on his head.
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Post by lanky on May 24, 2010 15:04:17 GMT -5
Well, yes, Tony, those armies (just like the 3.5 Chaos Codex) are not overpowered as a whole. They (see previous paranthetical) are just easier to abuse than certain armies.
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Post by doctorclockwork on May 24, 2010 15:08:48 GMT -5
Especially those Dark Eldar. What a goudafest that is.
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Post by lanky on May 24, 2010 15:12:51 GMT -5
Well, yeah, they're quite possibly the most easily abused codex in the game. In fact, the whole myth of them being a weak codex is put forth by its players so that when 9 Plasma Cannons a dozen or so Lances, and another dozen short range ones (all with good BS) do what they're meant to do, we're instantly thought of as being vaguely talented.
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Post by droofus on May 24, 2010 15:29:15 GMT -5
For those of us not behind the wheels of an army fielded from that monstrosity, it was necessary change. Says the IG, Blood Angels, and Orks player.  Touche. Though I will say in my defense that I played IG when they were god-awful and started BA at the only point in their existence when they weren't at power 'dex. And orks? Well, Stelek disagrees with you, though I do not.  They did a good job. And now I see why streamlining has become an issue. The core rules were so good in 7th ed that all the army books deliberately did their best to break that balance (I think the 40k codex writers are a lot better in terms of balance). They succeeded on almost all counts with various overpowered and silly combos. I include my own ASF nonsense army in that. They need a army book reboot, not a system reboot that attempts to fix their chronic failure to put out a balanced creep-free army book. Which is why I'd like to see another ravening hordes-style reboot to go along with this. Won't happen though because people would would rather have "flavor" over game balance. |
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Post by doctorclockwork on May 24, 2010 15:42:20 GMT -5
25% heroes is going to basically ruin Lizardmen.
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Post by phoenix on May 24, 2010 15:53:35 GMT -5
Well, we're hearing that it's 25% lord(s?), and 25% heroes, so if someone needs more than 1000 points for their characters, too bad, no sympathy here.
Also, I was wrong in my earlier post, it does look like special can be up to 50%. The more I think about it, the less restrictive this % system really is. It won't do much to my WE, and all it will do to my Dwarfs is allow more artillery (more! cool!)
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Post by Sterling Archer on May 24, 2010 15:53:53 GMT -5
It ruins vamps more. Them and tomb kings. Th two armies where loosing a general actually hurts. So either they hv one really expensive lord or like chuck said one inexpensive one with some weak support.
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Post by hardihar on May 24, 2010 16:43:22 GMT -5
hmm, ok it looks like 25% lords and 25% heroes, then that isnt that bad. at least if the rumors on warseer are right. 25% characters would have been crushing.
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Post by droofus on May 24, 2010 18:13:23 GMT -5
So basically they're re-instituting the 'limits' from the bad old days of 5th edition, aka herohammer.
I would have really liked to have seen a higher ratio of troops to heroes. Looks like we may actually see the opposite. Boo to herohammer 2.0!
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Post by Sterling Archer on May 24, 2010 18:41:41 GMT -5
Yay to hero hammer! Lol. Actualy I wouldn't mind seeing more troops but I want the option to have a couple bad ass characters with them. So pritty much I like 7th edition just fine.
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Post by ross on May 24, 2010 20:40:52 GMT -5
I don't think it will be hero hammer 2.0 it will still prevent a deathstar hero at 2000 points. I think it will prevent dragons and such.
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outamimynd
Roughneck
Love me....Hate me....Either way you're thinking of me.
Posts: 188
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Post by outamimynd on May 25, 2010 0:18:57 GMT -5
When I look at the cost of some of the characters in the books, if you want to use more then 1 good character choice you will be "forced" to play larger games.......so I think this edition will have ways to make the game play faster(streamlining).....so we can buy more models to play those larger games....and that is how GW works!
My only fear is that they will take all the strategy out of this edition, such as the "just pick a unit up and move it up to this distance any way you want to" rumor. Or close combat being so silly everyone tries to avoid it.
Phoenix, I think wood elf shooting will get better but if the new "step-up" rumor is true what wood elf would even think of combat.....wardancers (and to some extent dryads) relied heavily on charging and being able to take out models in the first rank to prevent attacks back...the step-up rule would all but destroy that advantage. But it would speed combat up.....so there is that streamlining again.
I guess we will have to see what they come up with.
Not a jab at the 40K players (I know you are out there in force)..... but after playing my last dozen or so games (I like to think I don't play cheesy lists) and getting tabled about halfway through turn 2 in just about all of them I lost interest in 40K, mainly because it seemed to me that GW made it so if you didn't abuse the army books and come up with that uber-army-of-death you stood no chance at all....I hope they don't do the same with Fantasy...or the Fantasy hobby will be put on the shelf with the 40K hobby and Flames of War will take center stage for me.
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Post by ross on May 25, 2010 7:46:16 GMT -5
Fantasy was already like that when they created the Vampire and demon armies. All the stuff I hear so far I think will make the game better.
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Post by droofus on May 25, 2010 8:39:39 GMT -5
I don't think it will be hero hammer 2.0 it will still prevent a deathstar hero at 2000 points. I think it will prevent dragons and such. Well.. it does rule out star dragons, which is nice I suppose, and the more egregious special characters. Also, if there is a 25% cap on rare, then that means no dual-STanks in 2000 points! Hallelujah! I'm just really bummed about some of the tourney armies I have seen - with no block troops or anything iconic. Hopefully that changes. |
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