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Post by discordian on Jun 25, 2012 13:04:52 GMT -5
It does add a lot of possibilities to the game. And it will breath new life into older books.
But I keep seeing the stupid combos I know I'm going to see played continually.
-Grey knights aren't going to take blob squads, they'll take a command squad and a veteran squad in chimeras to give them melta units that can hit things for super cheap. Or a squadron of artillery to give them something they don't have, large blasts for cheap without wasting a hq slot on a inquisitor.
-Xenos armies that don't have anti-pyker options are going to just grab a farseer. Imperials might be tempted just because they can.
-If flyers are going to be actually threatening, 3 hydras in a squadron are pretty cheap. And you get a HQ that can take any special weapon you want and another scoring unit that can do the same. Not much of a con here.
-Grey knights will make a great ally because what they have is comparativliy cheap when you only have to field two units from it. Draigo for one, really only wants one paliadan squad past that you only need scoring units and anti tank which most other codexs do cheaper.
-Guard too will be a good ally because your going to get a lot of shooting/vehicle options for a very low entry cost.
-Tyranids apparenlty are shafted by this system.
Yes this is shear paranoia on my part. But all I see from allies is giving almost everyone the potential, especially imperial armies, ability to compensate for the weaknesses in their armies by cherry picking the best units from two books. Which isnt bad if everyone is is doing it, but for the most part it will be the same units because GW is very bad at planning ahead when they have codexs spread out over two to three editions.
So instead of having a large amounts of cool creative varied lists your going to see a lot of people playing the same units while playing different armies. Which to me is just boring.
Of course theres HOPEFULLY a chance there is more to the allies rules then we have seen so far.
P.S. ELDAR ONLY GET 2 FREAKING SCHOOLs of magic/psykers WTF.
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Post by greenmtvince on Jun 25, 2012 13:38:46 GMT -5
So instead of having a large amounts of cool creative varied lists your going to see a lot of people playing the same units while playing different armies. Which to me is just boring. I think Triple play largely avoids this, but as far as the wider meta of netlists, that description isn't much different than the current status quo. The difference though, is each new codex release is going to open up the possibility to drastically change all the netlists at once rather than just an Army of the week. Perhaps the squats Demiurg in the next Tau codex are going to be just the right amount of broken to be a perfect allied contingent with Dark Eldar, and could be quickly replaced by a new build of Dark Eldar and some new aspect from the next Eldar Codex a few months later. -Guard too will be a good ally because your going to get a lot of shooting/vehicle options for a very low entry cost. Which also seems appropriate to me from a fluff standpoint as you have Chaos->Renegade IG, Space Marines -> Serfs/Badab Tyrant's Legion, Tau -> Gue'Vesa, Orks -> Diggas, Eldar-> Rogue Traders/Pirates, Dark Eldar -> Slaves, Tyranids -> Genestealer Cults (left out of the allies system, unfortunately) Kroot -> Dinner, etc. |
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Post by ross on Jun 25, 2012 13:54:33 GMT -5
I bet allies will be an option just like reinforcements in Warmachine or how they had it in the the 8th edition fantasy so most tournaments will not allow allies etc
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Post by discordian on Jun 25, 2012 14:02:10 GMT -5
Replacing the current status quo with a new status quo that accomplishes what the first status quo was attampeting to do seems really dumb to me.
And a new edition shouldnt be said okay simply because no growth nor decline occured. I wanted 6th to change things as opposed to just making it easier for people to autopilot through their list building. Because now they don't have to worry about playing to compensate weaknesses in a army they can just ally to negate it.
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Post by ross on Jun 25, 2012 19:20:23 GMT -5
A good way to do allies is just not allow special characters as allies and that really solves most of the issues that you have other than the IG issue.
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Post by blodgetter on Jun 26, 2012 23:50:39 GMT -5
Or maybe they could just not charge $125 for the basic hard cover rb?
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Post by droofus on Jun 27, 2012 10:21:14 GMT -5
Or maybe they could just not charge $125 for the basic hard cover rb? I'm seeing $75 hardcover. Are you sure you're looking at the price in NZ dollars or something? In other news, I'm liking that you can buy fortifications as part of your force. It seems like it would help out with problems of lack of terrain at certain tournaments if you can just bring a bastion with you. |
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Post by discordian on Jun 27, 2012 14:35:15 GMT -5
Or maybe they could just not charge $125 for the basic hard cover rb? Well if your not being sarcastic (sadly your not to far off) you might want to check and see if your on the right GW country site. I always hear about how Australia has super high costs. |
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Post by discordian on Jun 27, 2012 14:37:58 GMT -5
Or maybe they could just not charge $125 for the basic hard cover rb? I'm seeing $75 hardcover. Are you sure you're looking at the price in NZ dollars or something? In other news, I'm liking that you can buy fortifications as part of your force. It seems like it would help out with problems of lack of terrain at certain tournaments if you can just bring a bastion with you. The fortress of redemption is pretty stupidly big and really good at at blocking LOS, if that's what your going for. |
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Post by jeremyholiday on Jun 27, 2012 15:17:57 GMT -5
I know I often end up being the positive one, but I am really excited both about the allies rule and about the fortification rule. I like planetstrike (I know there are haters), but what I like about it best is the idea of attacking and defending a dug-in position. Allowing a bastion, some extra weapon emplacements, and defense lines takes what I most like about planetstrike and leaves the other mechanics behind.
re: allies - I started out by playing a space marine army with grey knght allies which got nixed with the new codex. I really am excited about fielding my gunline space marine list with and Eldar attachment.. both for fluff reason with my chapter (The Elder helped save the Bronze Legion from being wiped out by the imperium) and because I am excited about the different long range options that that the Eldar bring to the table. I love me some plasma cannons (as you all know) but I like to have other options as well.
to wit, no one has ever accused me of playing a cheesy or min-maxed list (case-in-point, I often field kitted out Vanguard vets at 325pts a squad.. essentially just for style), so I have no intention of fielding that kind of list... Uber-missile spam, or the like... but I think the allies rule with change the flavor of the games we play and will make the game more exciting to play. I expect that it will lead to a wider variety of lists encountered, which means it will be more exciting for me.
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Post by ross on Jun 27, 2012 15:52:46 GMT -5
Eldar probably won'r be allowed to ally with space marines - but maybe they will ingnore fluff and just allow whatever. If they don't ignore fluff then space wolves should not be allowed to ally with grey knights either.
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Post by lanky on Jun 28, 2012 2:54:49 GMT -5
Eldar probably won'r be allowed to ally with space marines - but maybe they will ingnore fluff and just allow whatever. If they don't ignore fluff then space wolves should not be allowed to ally with grey knights either. GW ignoring fluff? That would never happen. |
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Post by discordian on Jun 28, 2012 14:25:31 GMT -5
So Grey Knights have no Battle Brother allies, which is the level that lets you mix army wide benefits and attach characters willy nilly from one codex to another. Which makes sense because very few people actually know they exist other than all the people picked up the new 5th edition codex  . But they can ally with everyone but tyranids and chaos. So Jermey you can do a space marine/grey knight build pretty easily again if you want. P.S. No surprise Guard can ally with everyone but Tyranids and have the most Battle Brother options of any of the codexs. P.S.S. Tau can also ally with everyone but Tyranids, with only Eldar and Smurfs as bestest Buddies. I find it pretty silly they can ally with Chaos daemons. I have this picture of bunch of Daemons wandering around not seeing the Tau and the Tau with their hands over there eyes saying "I didn't see that, THEY DONT EXIST". |
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Post by lanky on Jun 28, 2012 14:52:03 GMT -5
Dark Eldar are willing to ally with Chaos while Craftworld Eldar are not. Fantastic.
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Post by ross on Jun 28, 2012 19:13:39 GMT -5
Are allies an extra that TOs can have as a tournament option or are they just straight up available for use anytime?
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. But they can ally with everyone but tyranids and chaos.