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Post by droofus on May 13, 2009 22:05:23 GMT -5
I vote no proxies, but only in games of 2000 points or under. Above that, and those with a less robust model collection than myself and a few others would be at a distinct advantage.
I also voted to restricted force org. Obviously this would only pertain to games not played with the apocalypse ruleset (3000+).
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Post by darkathy on May 15, 2009 21:57:11 GMT -5
As conrad points out, FW and GW dont make models for some of the tanks in the new IG codex, so I say rather then get rid of proxies, make some restrictions, if you have a model that is really close (IE, a Leman Russ and a Leman Russ Vanquisher are rather close) and if there isnt a model for it then it should be fine... but other then that it shouldnt be allowed...
As much fun as I can see having with a loose force org chart, I would have to say make it a standard force org chart, this way I cant attack someone with my three Wraithlords, two Heavy Weapon Platforms, and my Warwalker while being backed up by a handful of troops and a few big hitting HQ units.
*edit*
on second thought, Proxies should also be allowed if your opponent doesnt mind (IE: me and Drew fight, and I ask if I can proxy, say, a Fire Prism, he doesnt mind, so its ok. If he does mind, then I would have to find something else to fill those points)
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Post by deewalla on May 17, 2009 0:24:42 GMT -5
Erp, 3v3v3. As tied as one can get with 9 votes.
My worry about not allowing proxies is "How far does it go?"
Is a SM Chaplin who is obviously holding a sword but didn't have points spent on it (the sword) a proxie?
Is a Warwalker with Twin-linked brightlances but listed as Bright Lance & Missle Launcher a proxie?
Ork boys being used as Nobs... Guardsmen with no obvious communication device being treated as having a com-link... Daemonettes with no banner being treated as if they did... A Falcon being treated as a Fire Prism... A Landraider Redeemer being treated as a Landraider Crusader... A Leman Russ Demolisher being treated as a Leman Russ Punisher...
Are they proxies?
I don't have problems with any of the mentioned examples and they seem to have some common ties.
A: The models are owned by the player proxying them
B: They are being used to represent something very similar in footprint, shape, power, and army feel
C: The options being proxied are plausable, in that the user could own them as part of their normal army
Proxies, under normal Force Organazation, wouldn't be a problem.
Loose Force Organazation does favor those with large collections, but most of us with a large pool of models do not have multiples of the same exact choice. (Well, then again I own 10 Chimera's...so yes, my Tank Collection does have multiples. Mostly in three's, but then again the new codex does allow 9 Hellhound bodies, 6 Leman Russ bodies, 3 Artillery, and multiple Chimera's all into a legal FOC.)
Proxies in concert with unlimited selection lends itself to abuse.
In this campain, with the amount of games being played, being able to try a new character or an Elite choice gives something interesting to the game beyond just the normal fight. If we all have to own and field exact representations of our lists many of us would be playing the same hand of cards over and over.
I side with allowing proxies, but I also don't want to face a wall of little 12 ounce waterbottles and be told they all represent (insert uber super killy army choice here)
-Conrad
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Post by darkathy on May 17, 2009 0:57:37 GMT -5
Im all for allowing models equipment to be proxied, GW doesnt always produce a huge amount of diverse models, and to use the Warwalker example, Warwalker boxes only come with one of each weapon, so its expensive to have a Warwalker with two of the same weapon, and even more so to have a squad of 3 with 6 scatter lasers among them...
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Post by Monster Rain on May 17, 2009 19:05:59 GMT -5
My main problem with Proxies is that in being forced to use the models that you own it limits the size of the weekly battles to a sane point value. I can't attack someone with 5000 points with what I own, but if I decide to call the bulk of my Tactical Marines Terminators I could do it with ease.
You see what I'm saying?
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Post by jeremy3play on May 17, 2009 23:55:44 GMT -5
Well, I should've know it would be a tie ;D
So here is how we are going to proceed starting with the Tuesday.
1. You may only proxy two units. The unit must be 5 models or less. The model doing the proxy needs to be of the same size, on the same base, and a model that you own. If it's a model/turret/etc. that GW has not made yet, you may proxy that item freely.
2. Force Org. Chart - You may have 2 selections that do not meet the org. chart. These extra slots must be in different categories i.e. heavy and elite or HQ and fast.
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Post by FaithandFire on May 18, 2009 8:25:08 GMT -5
Crap, there go my plans for my 9 hellhound flaming army of death. I thought I could put lighter fluid in those waterbottles to simulate the effect too!
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Post by droofus on May 18, 2009 9:44:02 GMT -5
Well, I should've know it would be a tie ;D It's actually not a tie. It might seem that way based on the way of the poll was set up, but since there were actually two issues being voted on, it's not a tie. If we break it down by the true votes for each issue, here are the totals: Voted for no proxies/keep force org (1 vote for each position): 3 Voted for force org change/keep proxies (1 vote for each position): 3 Voted for force org change/no proxies (1 vote for each position): 3 Vote totals: Keep force org: 3 Change Force Org: 6 Keep proxies: 3 No Proxies: 6 I think your solution is a good compromise though, given the reservations I had about completely getting rid of proxy and loose force org. |
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Post by deewalla on May 18, 2009 9:44:15 GMT -5
Crap, there go my plans for my 9 hellhound flaming army of death. I thought I could put lighter fluid in those waterbottles to simulate the effect too! No officer I swear, we're playing a table top game!!! We're not making Molitov Cocktails I swear!!! |
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Post by deewalla on May 18, 2009 9:44:51 GMT -5
thingytails?!?! sigh, C0ck gets forum banned? oh well...
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Post by Monster Rain on May 18, 2009 10:51:30 GMT -5
Thingytails. Lulz. thingy-a-doodle-doo.
Drew does make an excellent point though
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Post by FaithandFire on May 18, 2009 14:07:49 GMT -5
But there was no option to keep both. I would have voted to keep both but could only choose one of the three options presented. Anyway, Jeremy has a good compromise. Just no thingytails allowed.
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Post by lanky on May 18, 2009 14:14:46 GMT -5
Can't guard take 9 hellhounds in an army anyway?
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Post by droofus on May 18, 2009 15:19:11 GMT -5
But there was no option to keep both. I would have voted to keep both but could only choose one of the three options presented. Anyway, Jeremy has a good compromise. Just no thingytails allowed. Good point. For it to have been a valid two question poll there should have been four combinations (get rid of one, get rid of other, keep both, get rid of both). lanky: Yes, Guard can take 9 hellhounds AND 9 leman russes... but they'll only have enough points to do so in a 3000 point game, which is almost apocalypse anyway ;D |
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Post by deewalla on May 18, 2009 16:06:24 GMT -5
2640 gets you 1 HQ(Company Command), 1 Troop(Veteran Squad), 3 Fast(9 Hellhounds), and 3 Heavy(9 Lemans).
1 scoring unit.. but thats ALOT of pie....
Heck, I don't even own that many basic Russ's.... or Hellhounds...
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