Read this Guys.

[Sterling Archer]

I read this on the pp forums and thought i should share it. Its about placing well at tournaments and conventions. It mentions cygnar, but can be used for all factions. I see it as some good general tips.





So, it seems that a lot of the negativity towards Cygnar comes from lackluster convention results (even though I've done well at past Gen Cons w/ Cygnar). I don't think there is anything wrong with Cygnar competitively as a faction, but I do think that a good collection of tournament tips could help some people place better than they would otherwise. Here are some tips that I've used to maintain a decent record at various cons over the years, regardless of which faction I've been playing. Maybe it will help, and maybe its hogwash, but its something to talk about, and this is a forum after all.

1) Show up and play!
Cygnar won't have a good good showing if no one plays . I've played against more than one player in Iron Arena that has said, essentially "I like tournaments and I wanted to play in X event, but I'll just lose". As long as you follow rule number 2, you might surprise yourself, and even if you do lose, at least you'll have fun.

2) Play something you enjoy!
This is a key for me, and one I've ignored for far too long (at least 2 years now). If you're going to compete for a spot in masters, you're going to need to practice, and what fun is playing a bunch of games with a caster you hate? I think this is *some* of the reason for the number of drops during big events as well -- if you don't enjoy what you're playing, why would you stick in the event? If you seriously enjoy a caster or unit, you'll have a good time even when you're taking your lumps against some of the tougher match ups out there. IMO, more than anything, HOW you play is more important that WHAT you play, so being good with something will go a really, really long way toward winning.

3) Don't play your lists for the first time at a Con, and know how the scenarios work
I've talked to numerous opponents after a game and on many occasions the games that I've had that weren't close, my opponent said they either hadn't played their list before the event or hadn't played that specific scenario before. When you're playing against a really good player, you need to be reacting to what he is doing and planning your turn based on a list you know well, all while keeping track of the status of the scenario and if you're in danger of winning or losing on the next turn. There is a very small subset of players that can walk into an event and win with whatever they play off the cuff, but I suspect they already know who they are and they aren't taking tips from me.

4) Taylor your lists to your events
Bringing a 50 model list to Hardcore can cause you to beat yourself as badly as bringing your hardcore list to a normal steamroller event and playing down seriously in model count every round. Just be conscious of your list when it comes to the event type, especially now that there are character restrictions everywhere (If both your casters really want Reinholdt and eEiryss, maybe you should consider a different caster for list 2?).

5) Practice against bad matchups
Before you head to the big event, know what your tough match ups are and practice against them. Your list should be good against around 80% of everything you can think of -- the other 20% you probably won't play against, but if it just happens that you get a bad match up at your event, at least you'll have a plan going in. I also find you discover some really cool tricks you wouldn't have thought of otherwise if you hadn't played against some tough lists.

6) Know what your opponent's stuff does
If you're playing against something the first time, ask to see the card. Granted, its probably best if you can actually play against every model in the game prior to going to your big event, but that's not terribly practical. Additionally, many events have new releases that players are going to squeeze into the events -- at Lock and Load I played against every colossal during the various tournaments this past year, even the mountain king, who only came out in limited quantities on Saturday! As long as you know your list and you know what constitutes a bad match up, check the card to see if it meets the criteria for a bad match up. If its a new caster you're playing against, make sure you know what the feat and spell lists look like. Nothing says "loss" worse than having to ask "what does that feat do again" when your opponent pops it.

7) Know what YOUR stuff does
If you've been practicing, this shouldn't be an issue, but you really shouldn't need to reference your cards much during a game except for marking damage. I occasionally need to look up things during a game, but its usually minor details, like the duration of an effect that doesn't come up very often. The more time you have to think about what your list can do, the less time you have to think about what your opponent is doing.

8) Don't panic when the dice turn against you
I've seen players who were doing really well, suddenly get angry or panicked when they miss a critical roll with snake eyes. Sure, it sucks, but as long as you keep your cool, you can usually recover by changing your plans a bit on the fly. If you can't change your plans, its probably because you were doing something in desperation and if you were at that point, well, good game and good attempt. Personally, I usually try rolling different dice after that snake eyes as well -- sometimes rolling the same dice can end up with a rash of the same roll a couple of times in a roll, and picking up a new set usually fixes that.

[Sterling Archer]

Phase 2.
The first discussion points are extremely general, and could apply to any faction. Lets drill down just a little further and keep some new points broad, but tie them into Cygnar just a bit.

1) Get maximum value for your points
This should be an obvious point (and I may even get some criticism for saying it), but more often than not I see lots of players come with models that don't yield maximum value. In Cygnar specifically, there are a lot of models and units that synergize really well with each other, but if you don't come up with a plan to have EVERYTHING working together as a whole, you can end up with a list that just doesn't perform. The most obvious on the synergy side is Rangers -- +2 to ranged attacks is outstanding within the unit itself, let alone when meshed with casters with ranged attacks, models with low rats like the storm models, and jacks you can save focus for boosting damage instead of attacks. On the other side of the equation, is the Lancer. At 6 points it is going to take roughly 11 to 15% of your total list to include the Lancer, and with pow 12s, its not going to be killing much of anything even with a damage buff applied to it. Additionally, the really only provides extra angles of attack with spells, as offensive spells generally have a range of 8 or greater, meaning most casters can threaten 14" with the spells when cast on their own. When picking the Lancer, you want to make sure you're arcing spells probably 3/4 of each game, as well as using it for slams and the occasionaly cortex frying, and potentially pairing it with Sword Knights to profit from the reach that the Lancer has. Yet another questionable value in my mind is the Stormclad -- you get very nearly the same offensive performance out of Ol Rowdy with more durability at fewer points. However, if you have Stormblades around the Stormclad becomes worth its points a bit more, but then you need to support the Stormblades, generally with some kind of defensive buff at a bare minimum. If you take it one step further, you might be running a Stormclad, w/ eHaley, w/ the Piper, w/ Stormblades /w UA & Wa, w/ Journeyman, and with Rangers. Now you can tank a bit with the storm blades (Def 15, Arm 20 against Ranged w/ Arcane Shield, Dirge of Mists, & Decelerate), and buff them offensively w/ Pathfinder, Deadeye, and the Ranger Buff. The Stromblades can contribute focus to the Stormclad, which eHaley can make a pure kill machine with TA, etc. Even this may not be enough as you would really like to have a screen, and probably some more shooting, but it certainly works together as a module.

2) Don't feel guilty
For some reason, I get more hate directed at the Haleys & eCaine than just about any caster in the game, and some opponents just don't want to play against those casters (yet they generally don't worry about using their power casters, go figure). While that can be fine for some casual play, you're going to need to practice if you want to qualify for a Masters event. Additionally, don't forget that just about any caster that is extremely well played can be frustrating for your opponent, so don't feel too guilty.

On the other hand, you DO need people to play against for practice, so find out what they hate about the caster. The players that hate pHaley normally just hate her because of temporal barrier -- if this is the case, just skip casting the spell during the game. Its good practice to learn how to use all the tools in your caster's toolbox, and maybe your opponent won't hate you when you're done with the game.

3) Expect your assassination run will fail, and practice that way
I've had players playing against me go for an early assassination on turn two, and then 1) act surprised when it didn't work, and 2) give up when it didn't work, even if they didn't get assassinated in return. Against a lot of really good players, they aren't going to give you the early assassination, and even if you get the attempt, it's probably going to be a long shot to make it work. As such, I recommend playing where the opposing caster has the same ability as the covenant for the last 3 boxes. So you damage the caster as normal until he has 3 boxes left, then you can only do 1 damage per attack for those last 3 boxes. This will help you be sure to have enough resources to complete an assassination attempt, and hopefully, will help you plan what to do if and when you fail. This is especially important to a number of cygnar casters with high risk assassination runs. eStryker is generally a high risk attempt, especially early in the game when your opponent has a lot of stuff left on the table. The same can go for eCaine who tends to end up with no focus and within 12 of the enemy caster.

[doctorclockwork]

Everyone read this.

[ross]

on the first post, number 2 makes all the difference. Unlike in gw games (where every army has a lot of choices but if you want to be competitive you have to only play certain models) in WM there are very very few bad casters/locks. It's important to find a caster you like and then you'll be excited to practice with him/her and get better at the game.

[wminsing]

Yep, there are a literal ton of viable builds in Warmachine/Hordes, so I'd agree the trick is to find a caster you like and then find a list you like and then practice like crazy.

-Will

[pkelly]

great read. a lot of sound advice.

[Sterling Archer]

More:





This is a hard lesson to learn but. DON'T ADD THROUGH FACTIONS/WARCASTERS/ETC. Until you are VERY familiar with the one you are leaving. If you like a warlock, stick with that warlock and play that warlock until either a) you hate him/her and want to throw the model in the trash or b) it is your bread and butter and you want to play every game with that warlock.

People like to go...oh shiny! oh shiny! and ADD through everything without properly learning the first one's capabilities. Even Flanzer can tell you that playing through lots of factions doesn't help much until you know the game through the lenses of one faction and a small group of casters. Then you can branch out and push your abilities. You need to have constants as you learn Warmachine, and by changing warlock/list/faction every week you are going to do yourself a disservice. There's too many variables in this game to switch it up on yourself while you switch opponents as well. You'll just be struggling.

What I would suggest:
1. Solidify the Faction you want to play. Borrow minis, play demos, read fluff. Whatever you need to feel committed to a faction for at least a year.
2. Talk to other players of the faction, write lists, and think about combos. Proxy/borrow minis if you feel you need to playtest during this time.
3. Based upon where you got in #2, buy at least one of the warlocks plus enough of a list to play at 25 points (or 35 points)...(or as much as you want to buy)
4. Assemble list for one (1) warlock. Play it at least 5 times before you change anything.
5. Change something. See how that affects list. Play at least 2 more times.
6. Increase point size of that list. If 25 go to 35, if 35 go to 50. See how that affects the list. Play at least 2 more times.
7. If you hate the way the list plays, go back to step 3/4 (you can reduce play amounts for #4 down to 2-3 if you choose, and you can play at the prevailing local meta point amount).
8. Once you have list A completed, create a list that deals with any of the problems that list A can't comfortably deal with (hi-def, hi-arm, troop swarm, etc.).
9. Playtest that list 4-5 times against the problem matchups. If does the trick cool, but you'll still probably have a few more problems.
10. Fix those problems with a 3rd list, but don't always rely on it, just have it as a backup to a backup if theres just one or two armies you dont like playing list A or B against. Playtest list C 4-5 times against the cornercase problems.
11. Play a 2 or 3 list tournament at the point size. Learn.
12. If you lost, and you can point to a specific weak point in a list that you need to upgrade, do so. Otherwise play those same lists more.
13. Repeat #11 and #12 until you are stoked on your lists.
14. Go to National Convention of your choice and try your luck there. If you do well awesome, if you don't go back to #12.
15. Keep doing these things until you hate your faction, or love your faction.

[doctorclockwork]

Ironic that Poofy is the one posting that part

[metagamed]

Poofy, you have galvanized me. I think I'm finally going to commit to something in this game. Details forthcoming!

[Sterling Archer]

It is ironic. These posts are what has made me commit to only two factioms. I love my cygnar bit at the same time hate them because i feel that there is very little i havent seen already. Ive played them to death. As i can tell by the fact that everyone hates playing against my ecaine