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Post by feldenglas on Sept 11, 2011 15:03:32 GMT -5
Let me preface this by saying that I am not a regular at TP. I livein central VT, I make it down once in a while, I have played in a few Warhammer and 40k events, and occasionally spend some money. I am nota regular.
Last night, my wife and I came in, specifically to buy something that she and I could play when we didn't have our whole gaming group together. We were considering Horus Heresy. There was a game going on, I didn't see what it was. At one point, one of the players muttered something to the effect of how badly he was about to get raped. That's when we changed our minds and left.
There are a number of reasons why that offended us. Primarily, that sort of statement has become ubiquitous in the gaming community (and other fandoms), and it shows an alarming depth of ignorance and privilege. surprise sex is one of the most horrible things that one person can do to another. Getting your game character dragged through some pretend mud by imaginary bad guys doesn't even come close. It only serves to further demean actual victims. We immediately felt alienated and unwelcome at the store.
If you are reading this, the odds are overwhelmingly good that you know a victim of sexual assault. Whether you know about it or not, someone you care about has been victimized at some point.
I would encourage the proprietors of Triple Play to consider whether or not this is the kind of experience they want their customers to have. I left angry, because I could not in good conscience spend money on something I wanted at a store that condoned that kind of ignorant, un-self-aware behavior. If this is okay to you, well, by all means change nothing. It certainly won't lose you every sale. It probably won't even lose you a lot of sales, sadly. But it lost you this sale.
To the gamer community, I'd encourage you to give some thought to the damage that the overuse of the word surprise sex does, especially when flung around in such a cavalier manner. This hobby has a reputation for being a place where women are uncomfortable... What are we doing to make them feel more welcome.
Before I end, I'll state that I'm not looking for an argument here. Don't talk to me about your free speech rights or the power of metaphor or the crushing weight of political correctness on your poor burdened privileged white male shoulders. That garbage is tired and played out and has no teeth. Don't waste your time.
So the tl;dr version is that I'm really fed up with the u iquitous misuse of the word surprise sex, specifically in my beloved gamer community, and I am not going to tolerate it any more. If that's how you choose to exercise your free speech rights around me, expect to hear me exercise mine.
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Post by doctorclockwork on Sept 11, 2011 15:25:44 GMT -5
What time did you come to the store? There was a game going on after hours, and I left and locked the door at the posted closing time of 6pm. None of the people who were there represent the store.
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Post by feldenglas on Sept 11, 2011 15:32:19 GMT -5
Right around 6:30, door was unlocked. I didn't notice a sign, but I saw folks inside so figured it was open. We were greeted, but never told the store was closed.
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Post by Monster Rain on Sept 11, 2011 18:00:49 GMT -5
If only this lecture had been given to these cads in person. I know that if I had been that outraged by something I would have wanted to make sure that the people who perpetrated this horrific act heard about it.
The upside of internet rants is the relative anonymity, but the drawback is that the intended audience might not read it.
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Post by feldenglas on Sept 11, 2011 19:20:55 GMT -5
Good point, Monster Rain. I definitely regretted not saying anything after leaving... In the moment I discarded the idea because the room already felt hostile. It took me most of today to get my thoughts in order. I was too upset to be eloquent, and just needed to get out.
Anonymity isn't really a concern for me though, and this incident has definitely galvanized me to take an immediate stand next time I encounter that kind of behavior.
And I'm counting on Triple Play's management to put their house in order. I'd like to be able to go back their and purchase in good conscience.
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Post by hinomura on Sept 11, 2011 20:24:08 GMT -5
As a customer at the shop who regularly shops and attends Triple Play with his gaming wife, I sympathize with your anger, and I'm very sorry it spoiled your visit. The staff at the store are usually very aware of the behaviour of their patrons, and I've often heard people warned for off-colour or inappropriate remarks.
On the whole, I find the store to be a welcoming and friendly environment, but there have been a couple of incidents where things haven't been stamped on as quickly as they should have been. Perhaps you should consider emailing the store directly with the information in your initial post, and I'm sure they will do their utmost to rectify the situation.
Mark
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Post by Sean on Sept 12, 2011 7:18:23 GMT -5
I apologize if you had a bad time in the store.
Unfortunately, We cannot police every word and every person in the store.
I agree that word is not acceptable - We (and almost every other regular) keep the store family friendly.
Thanks,
Sean
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Post by waylander on Sept 12, 2011 16:06:07 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear you had an unpleasant experience. I agree with Mark. I also am a regular at the store and on occasion have run into offensive behaviour or language. I have to say the staff is quick to rectify the behaviour, as are many of the other regulars.
The staff and the regulars do their best to keep Triple Play a friendly place to come, play games and enjoy good company. I think they do an excellent job. It is impossible to address every incident. I hope you are able to return and continue to enjoy Warhammer events.
Rod
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Post by Monster Rain on Sept 12, 2011 19:25:48 GMT -5
I was once physically threatened with a folding metal chair in the store and didn't fuss this much.
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Post by blodgetter on Sept 12, 2011 22:41:45 GMT -5
I'm a regular, not an owner. So take what I say with again of salt. Normally I would steer clear of this sort of discussion, but do feel compelled to put in my two cents.
When there are children present, or those who have made it clear that they are daily offended certainly, the language, or more to this point, the phrasings should be nipped. That said however, I for one don't think it's necessary nor even ethical to ask people too behave the way YOU feel they should. I'm sorry you were offended. But welcome too the real world where there's all sorts of things and people waiting around every corner that may shock or offend you. That's life in the grown up world.
I am sorry as well too see that this reaction is not because I disagree with how you felt nearly as much as it is because of how you felt compeled too preach at the lot of us, instead of towards those whom you felt were in error. Your post came off extremely arrogant and even more self righteous. I can only speak for myself, but that kind of attitude I find just as offensive as any perceived slight you might possibly have had.
As a side note, I'm fairly confidant I was not the one who made the statement, though I may well have been in the shop at the time.
Now, I do hope that you will see the points made here and give it the consideration I gave your post, especially since that is asking alot less of you then you seem too be asking of others, and if so, I hope you will give the shop a chance on an even ground. It's a game store. Not a church. Good gaming and best wishes either way
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Post by feldenglas on Sept 13, 2011 0:47:07 GMT -5
When there are children present, or those who have made it clear that they are daily offended certainly, the language, or more to this point, the phrasings should be nipped. That said however, I for one don't think it's necessary nor even ethical to ask people too behave the way YOU feel they should. Take another look, then, that's not what I'm doing. I'm explaining why I'm upset, and encouraging people to consider the potential damage done by the casual disposal of an extremely emotionally-laden word. At no point am I telling people what to think or do. I'm sorry you were offended. But welcome too the real world where there's all sorts of things and people waiting around every corner that may shock or offend you. That's life in the grown up world. Somehow this qualifying statement makes me doubt the sincerity of the apology that precedes it. I am sorry as well too see that this reaction is not because I disagree with how you felt nearly as much as it is because of how you felt compeled too preach at the lot of us, instead of towards those whom you felt were in error. Your post came off extremely arrogant and even more self righteous. I can only speak for myself, but that kind of attitude I find just as offensive as any perceived slight you might possibly have had. Aaaaand there it is. The "tone argument", so frequently raised in response to activism (as in, "you should educate me as a racist/sexist/whatever-ist and do it in a nicer tone!"), as well as the "you calling me out was way meaner than the thing I said" argument. I honestly don't care if you think I'm arrogant or self-righteous. I'm okay with the idea of me looking like a Richard over this issue, because I personally feel that it warrants a bit of dickishness. You didn't make the statement yourself; why do you feel attacked or preached-at here? I'm not going to be any nicer about this issue than I was in my first post. Why on earth do you think I should? |
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Post by droofus on Sept 13, 2011 9:19:34 GMT -5
Because most successful activists in history met incivility with civil behavior.
And I imagine he feels preached at because you addressed the last part of your diatribe to the whole "gamer community". Did you ever stop to think that maybe there are people within said community who agree with you? Characterizing the whole community as a bunch of "privileged white males" is not a good way to empower them to speak.
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Post by Monster Rain on Sept 13, 2011 11:29:37 GMT -5
Aaaaand there it is. The "tone argument", so frequently raised in response to activism  This is a slap in the face to actual activists. You know, the kind that make a stand in the face of something they see as wrong instead of spouting off about it from behind their keyboard. I'm offended by this, therefore you should really stop doing it. I honestly don't care if you think I'm arrogant or self-righteous. I'm okay with the idea of me looking like a Richard over this issue, because I personally feel that it warrants a bit of dickishness. Mission accomplished, then. For the record, I tend to agree with the sentiment of your original post. I just think you have gone about this in the worst possible way. You didn't make the statement yourself; why do you feel attacked or preached-at here? He's one of the people that you alienated with your rant, most likely. And didn't you just say you were trying to be a Richard? What reaction did you expect from the gaming community at large who you painted as privileged white males? You know what else is tired garbage? Phony outrage from internet tough guys. If that's how you choose to exercise your free speech rights around me, expect to hear me exercise mine. Just think of how less silly this would all seem if you had done that in the first place. |
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Post by bradward on Sept 13, 2011 12:43:51 GMT -5
I was running the game that was playing at that time. As I was focused on the game itself, I don't remember any of this happening. This is not to deny that it happened, I just wanted to say that I don't specifically remember it. It is likely that all of us playing the game are simply desensitized to the use of that language, so it just didn't register.
I apologize sincerely for our behavior. I agree that people using the store as a gaming area should realize that it is a public space, and should try to remember that it is a community. While many of us may be desensitized to the use of such language, we should recognize that others walking in the store may not be, and it is simply disrespectful and unprofessional to ignore that fact.
I only wish that you had mentioned this to us when it happened. I don't know if any of the other players at that time will read this or see it in the right context at this time. If you had told us personally about your problem with this language, at the moment it happened, I believe we would have been almost unanimous in our apologies and the issue could have been resolved then.
Again, please accept my apologies for our language. I hope that you will consider coming back some time in the future, and share in a community that I believe is usually fairly considerate and accepting.
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Post by doctorclockwork on Sept 13, 2011 13:15:44 GMT -5
Let's end this thread on a positive note. Thanks, Brad.
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