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Post by ross on Feb 3, 2011 23:02:20 GMT -5
So here's something that just occured to me. We all know that barrage weapons fired indirectly ignore LOS cover. Would that mean they ignore the KFF because the KFF does not give cover, but has vehicles count as being obscured?
Obscured comes from interveining LOS which indirect barrage ignores.
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Post by droofus on Feb 4, 2011 10:58:01 GMT -5
Obscured comes from interveining LOS which indirect barrage ignores. It also comes from smoke and the kustom force field, neither of which barrage weapons ignore. |
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Post by ross on Feb 4, 2011 11:02:15 GMT -5
yeah i have to re-read smoke launchers and barrage weapons too. This is just me being bored at work with too much time to think.
Edit: FYI I have also never used a barrage weapon in my entire 40k experience
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Post by droofus on Feb 4, 2011 11:11:16 GMT -5
yeah i have to re-read smoke launchers and barrage weapons too. This is just me being bored at work with too much time to think. Edit: FYI I have also never used a barrage weapon in my entire 40k experience I don't blame you for not using barrage. Whirlwinds are only really good against Orks and Nids (or horde IG I suppose). But against marines or anyone with armor 11+ transports they are pretty awful. It is sad but true (because they look so sweet). ATM the only people with decent barrage stuff (IMO) are IG and Eldar (nightspinner). If you go back to your eldar at some point, I highly recommend the nightspinner btw. They are awesome. |
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Post by ross on Feb 4, 2011 11:17:19 GMT -5
I have a nightspinner just never put it together.
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Post by doctorclockwork on Feb 4, 2011 14:28:40 GMT -5
I've always understood that barrage and flamers ignore the cover save given to infantry by the KFF, but the KFF gives vehicles the obscured keyword, NOT "cover". As Drew said, it is a special exception the same as smoke launchers. So I would rule that no, barrage would not ignore KFF obscured on vehicles.
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Post by Monster Rain on Feb 4, 2011 14:29:35 GMT -5
Actually, Whirlwinds aren't bad against Chimeras if you don't scatter off of them. Barrage hits side armor and it's Ordnance so you roll 2d6 and take the highest and ignore intervening terrain.
Also, the Nightspinner is a beeyatch.
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Post by ross on Feb 4, 2011 14:38:11 GMT -5
the night spinner is twin linked which is huge for barrage.
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Post by droofus on Feb 4, 2011 14:57:50 GMT -5
I've always understood that barrage and flamers ignore the cover save given to infantry by the KFF. Flamers ignore cover. Barrage ignores intervening terrain. So flamers cut through the KFF while barrage doesn't. Of course, there are certain barrage weapons that ignore cover too: the Whirlwind has a lower strength shell that ignores cover while the IG have the good ole Collosus siege mortar. But they gain that ability through their special rule and not through the barrage rules. True. But something tells me that you'll always go for that dagnabbit thunderfire cannon. ;D |
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Post by ross on Feb 4, 2011 15:02:45 GMT -5
The thunderfire on paper doesn't look very good, but everytime I've seen it fielded it does well.
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Post by Monster Rain on Feb 4, 2011 15:39:10 GMT -5
This is the only place on the internet where people understand the glory of the TFC.
It's why I love this forum so...
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kraxxus
Roughneck
*He Knows were the goods are...*
Posts: 143
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Post by kraxxus on Feb 4, 2011 19:22:28 GMT -5
100pnts for Basicly Immoble Fire Support that's easy to take down seems like a bit much. I mean its Big and nasty but gets what 1 shot off before concentrated fire blows it away... I don't know about the Thunderfire Cannon being that effective.
I think I would rather spend my points on a differnt Hvy Support option. What do you guys think?
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Post by doctorclockwork on Feb 4, 2011 19:24:02 GMT -5
I think those non-ordnance Blood Angel Vindicators would be a better option.
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Post by Monster Rain on Feb 4, 2011 20:13:44 GMT -5
100pnts for Basicly Immoble Fire Support that's easy to take down seems like a bit much. I mean its Big and nasty but gets what 1 shot off before concentrated fire blows it away... I don't know about the Thunderfire Cannon being that effective. I think I would rather spend my points on a differnt Hvy Support option. What do you guys think? Have you played against a TFC? You're selling it a bit short. |
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kraxxus
Roughneck
*He Knows were the goods are...*
Posts: 143
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Post by kraxxus on Feb 4, 2011 20:47:41 GMT -5
Just seems like one of those things that would be too easy to take down with concentrated fire, and seems like a lot of points to fire off once or twice, and you could get more out of your 100pnts else were.
Now maybe if you had some other nasty unit on the board, like a Land Raider Full of Assault Terminator Goodness, and had to pick between stoping a Death Star and the TFC you could get more outa the 100pnts... but it still seems expensive.
EDIT:
Okay so looking at this a little bit more, and It seems they might have a use or two if you can keep them alive... big IF it looks like.
So besides from a Horde army butcherer,
I wouldn't use this vs. Tanks or the like
BUT!
I would Use it vs. a Land Raider Deathstar Kinda Unit, and here's why:
Subterranean blast, Land Raider is now in difficult terrain, and has a 16% chance to get immobilized next turn. That's better than a lascannons 6% chance.
A 16% chance of making a redeemer or crusader worthless is pretty good, not to mention the crap insides gotta get out and walk now, and that's a bonus for the cannon.
Still seems expensive for a Unit that has limited uses compared to other units in that codex.
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