Bringing back the Chaos Legions

[droofus]

Bell of Lost Souls has done a pretty cool job of redoing the chaos legions within the 5th ed ruleset

www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/02/40k-chaos-legions-quick-and-dirty.html

I think they did a good job of bringing some of the flavor back to the legions. Night Lords in particular look like they might be fun.

On thing I don't really like is the idea of allowing units originating from codex: daemons to assault the turn they come in. But that just might make up for some of the increased unit costs that chaos pays in other areas. If any of the local chaos players want to try these lists out, I'd be happy to give you a game.

Thoughts?

[khornedog]

I saw that! I would love to throw some the Word Bearers using these rules. Some posters were very critical. I think the point of the article writer was to try something new using preexisting rules.

I personally liked it. Chaos desperately needs a redo not because they are weak or underpowered, but because there is so much potential for cool rules and fluff. It seems like a waste of IP to me!

[hardihar]

Brian hits it, what GW is losing is the fluffy fun. the min maxers are going to abuse everything, but without the fluff i really dont think GW would have been anywhere nearly as succesful.

[ross]

I think the new DE codex brought it back a little.

[khornedog]

My Fluffy wordbearers list. I will with try to minimize the min-maxing;)

1 Dark Apostle ( undivided chaos lord with Dameon weapon and Litanies)
1 Blood thirster (or KoS)

1 unit of Annointed (termis)

2X of CSM with Icon of CG and Meltas
1 Unit of Bloodletters (or Daemonettes)
1 Unit of Conscripts

1 small unit of fleshhounds (or seekers)

2 units of Havocs (one unit with 4 AC and one with 4 ML)
Defiler

I think this would be a pretty good all comers list around 1850-2000. The tricky thing is to not take too many daemons. Your opponent can focus on whats on the board turn 1 and 2 while you wait for the daemons. Also, my three vehicles will not last long.

The good old daemon bomb bikers would also make a comeback if these were concrete rules. These rules would quickly get abused I agree. It is fun though for a friendly game.

[droofus]

They did a pretty good job with the space wolf dex and the blood angel dex though. And I hear good things about the DE dex. Space Marines also did a pretty good job of covering some of the chapters (though not all - alas poor Iron Hands, we hardly knew thee).

In general, I think we can expect that taking special characters will be the way they run this for Chaos. Say, by taking Lucius you unlock Noise Marines as troops and any dreadnoughts and/or devastators can take sonic weaponry at X points. Similar thing with Kharn and the World Eaters. I'm not sure about that, but it beats the current system of NO flexibility within the chaos dex.

My preference would be more like what BoLS has put up. I could see them releasing something like this as a PDF supplement.

EDIT: Brian, that list looks awesome. After you finish up your ToC games I'd love to take my Orks or BA agaisnt it.

[phoenix]

Feb 3, 2011 9:36:02 GMT -5 hardihar said:

Brian hits it, what GW is losing is the fluffy fun. the min maxers are going to abuse everything, but without the fluff i really dont think GW would have been anywhere nearly as succesful.

Agree completely. Even the old way of how they handled the Legions was something - a couple of little goodies, enough to make them stand apart just a little bit so you could say you were playing Night Lords as opposed to Vanilla Marines who are painted as NL. Although, I confess, the Iron Warrior add ons were a little over the top.

Droofus, agree about the Space Wolves and Blood Angels, but really no-one is complaining about any weakness in those lists - they are both powerhouse lists, with lots of characterful units. Chaos, on the other hand, gets nuttin'. They have not even remotely come close to giving the Legions the SM treatment, and I hear no plan on the horizon for any such.

I wonder how Blood Angels or Space Wolves players would feel if they had to use the Vanilla SM 'dex?

p.s. I really like that idea for the Legions. it looks like it works well, and is simple and straight forward.

[droofus]

I think you might have misunderstood. I was giving BA and SW as examples of how GW has managed to put out new 'dexes that are both fluffy AND powerful. I did this in counterpoint to Chuck's argument that GW is losing it's ability to put out characterful lists that have a decent power level.

I agree there was a period where they lost it (Dark Angels and Chaos were released during that time). Starting with the Space Marine dex and continuing into the presence I think the pendulum has swung back. This makes me think that if chaos gets a new dex in the next couple years, it'll be something both characterful and powerful.

Unfortunately, it might take a while for that to happen. Which is why I want to see how these alternate lists work in the short term.

[phoenix]

Oh sorry, yeah I agree.

[ross]

Yeah since the chaos dex is still "new" compared to some of them out there it will be a while before they update it i think. From experience I can confirm that they did a good job with the space wolves and making them still a psace marine army but much different from vanilla marines and blood angels. I really love the individuality you can give to the HQs (albeit I usually just end up spaming the same kind for synergy) and even how you can give each wolf guard completely different gear and split them up between the squads. You really get the sense that the space wolves never accepted and never will accept the codex astartes.

[hardihar]

Corrupted, and suspect. Its finally time for this twisted and chaos warped off spring of Russ to get the full attention of the inquisition.

[Monster Rain]

Feb 3, 2011 10:48:06 GMT -5 droofus said:

Space Marines also did a pretty good job of covering some of the chapters (though not all - alas poor Iron Hands, we hardly knew thee).

Tell me about it!

The Master of the Forge is pretty Iron Hands-ish though. At least you can still bring more than 3 Dreadnoughts. I plan on looking at the link in your OP more closely in a bit. Perhaps my Word Bearers will achieve my original vision for them after all.

[snickerdoodle]

Would the master of the forge let me use Defilers as elite choices....just joking.

Most of the option are very playable, and fun.