Al-Raheim Quandary (rules-meisters go here)

[doctorclockwork]

Brad posed an interesting question that none of us are entirely sure of.

Al-Raheim allows his entire platoon to outflank, and they all enter the table at the same time when their reserves roll comes up. So say you have your infantry squads in Chimeras (which would be dedicated), and some special weapons squads embarked in Vendettas.

The Vendettas are not dedicated transports, but would they still come on with the rest of the plattoon since the special weapons squads are embarked?

We aren't sure, but I figured since you don't have to make separate reserves rolls for a battlewagon and the boyz mob that's supposed to be in it... I'm guessing that yes, the Vendettas full of guardsmen would join their brothers when Al-Raheim declares the jihad.

What do you guys think?

[blodgetter]

I don't think it would all come in at the same time. I'll grant that guard work differntly though, but normaly you can't divide a single unit between multiple transports. But since they are non dedicated transports the unit may enter embarked on them on the transports roll, but since they are doing so they wouldent be entering with the guys unit. Not unlike if I embark a unit on a falcon, I roll for the falcon to come on, and any unit embarked comes on with it. I don't roll for the unit and have the falcon come on with them. Otherwise you would effectively be getting two attempts for it too come on

[snickerdoodle]

You could also roll for the unit to come on not the Falcon.

[blodgetter]

But if I roll for the unit, notthe falcon then they would be coming on separately, because it is a non designated transport. Thus it takes it's own spot in the force organization chart, and is not an upgrade or attachment for the models it is transporting

[ross]

I think you misunderstood the question mark. Muhammud brings his platoon on at the same time. Platoons can be split into combat squads like marines can so the guys in the vendetta are still part of the platoon. and saying that when split into squads they don't count doesn't work because muhammud's platoon comand cannot be a part of the blob.

What you asked mark was do they still count as part of the platoon when in vendettas because it is the vendetta in reserve not the guys inside and that is a solid point but i'm afraid is far from a wining argument against them all coming at once.

[droofus]

When in doubt, trust the cheeselords at Warseer to find a loophole like this and make it even more cheesy:

www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197865

To summarize for those who cannot be bothered to visit that hive of scum and villainy: simply take a squadron of 3 valks/vendettas, embark a squad from rahem's platoon on one of them. Then fill the other two up with another pair of units you want arriving at the same time and in the same place. Say, two melta-vet squads. Boom! Instant IG army.

Of course, if there is a warhammer hell, then there is a special place there reserved for the person who thought this up

[ross]

indeed there is

[phoenix]

What rule says that the Valkyries come on at the same time as the unit inside? I feel I'm missing something. Essentially, what you have is a platoon (which consists of men and chimeras) and separate units of Valks - you roll separately for each. If the Valks come on at the same time as the Platoon, you get to embark one of the subgroups of the Platoon on the Valks. Otherwise, empty Valk! What's the issue?

[doctorclockwork]

Just when you thought there were enough reasons to hate Guard.

[doctorclockwork]

Antonin, units are declared as being embarked at the time of deployment, whether they are in reserve or not. Al-Raheim makes it so the ENTIRE platoon comes into reserve at the same time. Despite what the troops are embarked on, they will all come in at the same time, embarked on their chosen vehicles.

[Monster Rain]

As icky as it feels, I have to agree with the idea that the Valkyries come in with Al-Rahem's platoon.

Not that such a paltry gimmick will succeed against the mighty Hands of Vengeance.

[snickerdoodle]

just for the record I thought up the cheese, yeah me!

[Monster Rain]

It doesn't seem like that big of a deal, really. I've seen the outflanking Vendetta squadron of cheese and haven't been all that impressed with it.

I suppose less mobile armies wouldn't be quite so fortunate though.

[hardihar]

Vendettas are not part of his platoon so cant go.

its that simple. the units you are putting in the vendettas are part of the platoon but cant load onto them if your using the ability.

its just very simple, if the unit is not part of the platoon and is bought seperatly you dont get the advantage of the platoons rules.

[Monster Rain]

See, that makes sense too.

I suppose there would have to be something in Rahem's rules that say that you can take Vendettas on the outflank.