New FAQ's

[khornedog]

Hmmm interesting question. I am of the thought the diresword in not instant death and therefore EW would not apply. It actually has to say Instant Death in the description for the rule to kick in. GW how about a mass FAQ bringing all codexes in line with the new edition. It was one of the positives for WFB and would be just awesome for 40K.

Back to the FAQ's, it seems another win for marines and therefore a blow to my beloved Xenos. I havent heard much about the DE FAQ minus it was quick. Is it going to affect them at all? The Nids FAQ was an unneccessary blow to the dex.

[kraxxus]

Well my whole agument is that it discribes instant death in the 5th ed rulebook as an effect that slays a model outright and removes it as a casualty regaurdless of wounds. The same discription of a force weapon or being shot by a weapon with more than double your toughness in str. And therefor i beleave it doesnt have to say instant death to cause it. If EW protects agenst being shot by a weapon with double str than your toughness then it also protects agenst all those other weapons out there like it

[hardihar]

your running into the eternal arguement. the rule says the effect it cancels is instant death, if your weapon doesnt have that in as one of its rules then there is nothing to cancel, so no effect. so EW wouldnt come into effect, as Brian pointed out it would be nice if GW took the effort to FAQ all the rule books into line. simple things of clarifying that an instant death effect is actually covered by the instant death rule( so nulified by EW), or making it clear that no in this case its not actually the instant death rule being implemented by a force weapon, it just causes instant death( notice the difference).

[kraxxus]

Not really,

EW says the Model is immune to the effects of the Instant Death rule,

and the effects of the Instant Death Rule is a model being slain outright regardless of Toughness value and being removed as a casulty

so therefor logic dictates weapons that cause Instant death (weather it reads in the discription or not) cause the effects of the Instant Death rule and are therefor protected by EW

[droofus]

Jan 21, 2011 10:11:59 GMT -5 kraxxus said:

and the effects of the Instant Death Rule is a model being slain outright regardless of Toughness value and being removed as a casulty

so therefor logic dictates weapons that cause Instant death (weather it reads in the discription or not) cause the effects of the Instant Death rule and are therefor protected by EW

This is where your logic is breaking down. There are things that kill a model outright in the game (you can call it "instantly killing" but it's not the same as the rule by the name of Instant Death). Within that grouping, there are things that use the Instant Death rule (note the caps) and things like the dire sword, that do not. Eternal Warrior grants immunity to the Instant Death subset (again, the caps), but not to the effect of being killed outright. I'd put up a Venn Diagram, but it would look rather silly.

It's worth noting that most of the examples of "killing-outright-but-not-through-the-Instant-Death-rule" are from old codices. Even Eldar were released prior to the advent of 5th edition.

This game. It will make lawyers of us all

[ross]

Drew is right, Instant death is not being killed out right, it is when the str of the attack is double the T of the model. Normal force weapons say in the rule book that they cause instant death. the old grey knight and diresword things do not mention instant death and therefore EW will not save you from them.

[kraxxus]

But my argument is in that word Effects if you guys were right than the 5th ed rule would say immune to the Instant Death rule not the EFFECTS of the instant death rule, two totally differnt things. The way i read it is that it protects from the effects (being slain outright regaurdless of wounds) not the actual rule just the effects

[droofus]

Jan 21, 2011 11:10:25 GMT -5 kraxxus said:

But my argument is in that word Effects if you guys were right than the 5th ed rule would say immune to the Instant Death rule not the EFFECTS of the instant death rule, two totally differnt things. The way i read it is that it protects from the effects (being slain outright regaurdless of wounds) not the actual rule just the effects

Fair enough point. But the source of the effect is cited as well. Say that I was immune to the effects of necromancy practiced by Bob the necromancer. Would I then be immune to the effects of necromancy practiced by Billy the necromancer? I think I'd probably be a zombie if Billy cast a spell.

[kraxxus]

But it doesnt say immune to the effects of bobs instant death rule just immune to the effects of instant death :^)

[ross]

But things that cause instant death say that they do, like in the eldar book the wraithcannon causes instant death. Normal force weapons cause instant death. Something that does not mention causing instant death like a diresword of jaws of the world wolf does not cause instant death. All we have to go by are rules as written, and that's that... EW does not protect from all removal effects just things that mention instant death.

[droofus]

Jan 21, 2011 11:25:19 GMT -5 kraxxus said:

But it doesnt say immune to the effects of bobs instant death rule just immune to the effects of instant death :^)

But the rule is capitalized, meaning a specific rule. Instant Death = Bob. Diresword = Billy. My point was that just because you're immune to the effects of a specific rule, you aren't immune to identical effects caused by a different special rule.

[kraxxus]

And my point is that instant death=instant death effect and diresword=slain outright and that instant death effect=slain outright so a model immune to instant deaths rule effect(EW) is immune to being slain outright but not technicly instant death cause they can still be hit by Instant Death weapons but only take a wound as normal. If they worded it without EFFECTS than one could argu instant death weapons couldnt do anything to a model with EW

[Sterling Archer]

Alright Ben. You got us. You managed to find something out in the rules that the other 100,000 or so of us that play haven't been able to find while playing this game for the entirity of 5ed. Lol.

[kraxxus]

Its one of those things that i wont back down from but i will probibly nvr see in a game cause i play necrons and dont get instant death or the like attacks often save for the stray double str and will either have to have a judge decide or a roll off untill its FAQed or some new codexs come out or somthing. But it is good fun debateing the issue :-)

[ross]

your definitely still wrong ben