Your thoughts on the New 40k Rule Changes

[zorbag]

Just curious what everyone thinks of the new rule changes in the Upcoming 40k rulebook.

In case you hadn't heard, these are some of the things that are rumored to be changing.

Squads will always give the squads behind them a 4+ cover save from shooting.
(ie, grots will rule all your asses again)

All blast template weapons will now be placed over units scattered, and then the scatter will be reduced by your ballisitc skill. Yes even space marine missle launchers, Whirlwinds, ...anythnig using a round template.

All units will be able to run if they don't shoot, an additonal 6 inches. But they can't assault if you do.

There is no longer a glancing and penetrating damage chart. One chart for both. Certain circumstances will add or subtract from the chart. (ie, open top adds one)

There are more things , but I cant remeber them at the moment.

My thoughts right now are horde armies will rule you all again. Who wants to deal with 150 + orks running behind an extremely cheap 4+ cover save 12 inches a turn.
CRUNCH!

[FaithandFire]

Shhhhh! No one tell Warboss Bob!

I see the future and the future is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Multiple flamers are better now too. No "dimishing returns" by resolving each flamer one by one. Now you count up all the hits from all the templates and resolve them all at once. Maybe those 4 flamer Dominion squads are worth taking now. Add in a little Divine Guidance as needed, stir, and shake and bake!!

Also, aren't hits going to be assigned to individual models and resolved separately? It will make the game longer but it will seriously impact those IG squads who serve as 10 wound IG lascannons.

[outamimynd]

Oh Great......the one advantage IG had gone out the lasport.

[deadlyflorist]

You also forgot that they have pretty much gotten rid of the kill zone, as well as given each unit in the game the equivalent of counter attack (the way it works now). So now those large 30 boy mobs will be able to attack with each boy no matter the number of wounds they take.

Also, with only infantry troops being albe to hold objectives (though almost anything can contest them) and be able to hold them down to the last modle those 30 mob boy squads will rule in that event as well.

Oh don't let warboss Bob find out, though he may still be on his binge about how bad the orks are with the new codex.

[zorbag]

Yup, I only read thru the new rules once. Im sure theres quite a bit I havent mentioned.

Close combat will be over much faster to methinks.

Quick example. Assume 10 marines are assaulted by 20 orks.

In the previous rules about 8 or 9 orks probably wouldnt even be fighting.

Lets asume the marine sgt has 2 cc weapons. 11 attacks = , lets be nice and say 6 hits.
That equals 3 wounds. Orks will more than likely fail em all.

Orks attack back 16 boyz x 4= 64 attacks. 32 hits, 16 wounds. At least 5 dead marines. And the nob hasnt even been added in.

UGLY.

I think one of the major complaints about the current edition was the game became all about shooting. It's nice to see assault will be back.

Which brings me to my next point.

The Space marine rhino rush will be back. Much less chance of being immobilized during vehicle destruction. Putting 4 - 5 squads of marines w/ cc weapons in rhinos and rushing straight at the enemy seems like a good tactic again.

Also awesome , you can blow up a transport with a squad now and still assault the squad inside of it. I think... I dont remember the details on this one to clearly.

[lanky]

Right, everyone gets fleet and rending gets weaker. Sounds lovely for the Slaaneshi Daemon player. At least the new grenade rules (If I've read the truth) will let me almost always attack first.

[zorbag]

Well...it's not true fleet. You can't assault when you do it.

You are correct about the grenade thing though.

As for rending getting nerfed...That was long overdue. It was far to overpowered.

KOFF...Space marine army with 17 assault cannons = weedy .

[FaithandFire]

"KOFF...Space marine army with 17 assault cannons = weedy"

I remember the days of the Bonny Irish Space Monkeys, mostly in my nightmares, but I do remember them.

[deadlyflorist]

Actualy in your example ben all 20 boys would be fighting back due to the no kill zone and I not really mattering at all, so thats 19x4=76 which is 38 hits and 19 wounds killing 6, then the nob would bring his heafty little smurf killer into it and kill anouther 2, which pretty much nets you the squad in a single round.
And while I do agree that CC might have needed a little extra, its sounding like they've made done what GW always does, and overcompinsated for a weak CC system in 4th, and made CC in 5th far over powered. But of course, I haven't played a game yet so I can't say for sure.
Also ben, i've asked a few people this question, read the section on pinning tests would you, I would like to see what you think. It says that a unit can be forced to take multapul pinning tests per round, and that a pinning test is forced when a unit takes a wound from a weapon that causes pinning. I interprit that to mean a unit with many pinning weapons (a pathfinder squad for example) dealing 3 unsaved wounds would cause 3 pinning tests to be taken, what do you think?

And FaithandFire, I never had the pleasure of playing him in a large game, but I remebmer the first time I played at the store it was a 500 pt escalation game, and his list consisted of a scout squad with sniper rifles, a dread, and a pimped out lord. Glad I never had to deal with his full army.

[zorbag]

I was taking the fact that the marines would kill 3 of em before they attacked into the equation.

Not that it matters much..heh. 3 boyz = 18 pts.

You're right though, GW has a history of fxing things with a sledgehammer. Of course we must try the new rules first and see how they balance.


And yes that space marine army was the epitome of ridiculous cheese, and abusing the army book. It is best not spoken of. My bad.

Although lifetime I went 2 and 1 against it with my orks.

[droofus]

I had heard that you wouldn't be allowed to initiate new combats with a consolidation move.

Can anyone lend credence to this? I certainly hope this is the case, as I felt that this was a pretty lame rule which pwned shooty hordes (read: IG and footslogging tau) to the point of non-viability.

It would also balance things given the new advantages CC armies have with 4+ cover save screens and the combat res system.

Fingers crossed!

[FaithandFire]

"I had heard that you wouldn't be allowed to initiate new combats with a consolidation move. "

Than's my understanding too. No more consolidating right through your opponents entire army.

[lanky]

Rending never belonged on ranged weapons. They screwed up in giving it to them, and universally nerfed it so that a list that hamstrings itself already by staying mono god loses its real hitting power.

Ass cannons are overpowered, lightly armored troops that even with fleet have to survive a turn of shooting to make close combat should be tearing things apart when they get there.

*Edited for profanity*

[FaithandFire]

"And FaithandFire, I never had the pleasure of playing him in a large game, but I remember the first time I played at the store it was a 500 pt escalation game, and his list consisted of a scout squad with sniper rifles, a dread, and a pimped out lord. Glad I never had to deal with his full army."

He was a power gamer! I was just learning the game and I was so much of a noob that I didn't realize he was fielding such a cheesy army. I thought I just sucked big time. (Which may be a debatable point.)

It even drove me away from my original 40k army (Necrons) and made me into a womanizer (only in a 40k sense, don't need any rumors starting). Which actually wasn't a bad thing.

But I remember fondly the time my Canoness made 23 straight 2+ invulnerable saves against him in one turn.

[zorbag]

True lanky. But at least in the new rules you can screen those demonettes with a different squad at least. At least it gets you the cover save.

But it does bum me out having just painted 2 squads of demonettes that theyre going to suck a bit more in another month. Oh well...

And you are definitely right about the new demon book. They intentionally make going mono god blow. if you want to have a well rounded list you need to include all the demons. Well Khorne can still do pretty well alone. Nurgle would survive well enough but they stink so bad in hand 2 hand . Slanesh is fast but they bend over to shooting with their low toughness. And even when you get there the rending nerf means cc wont be the auto win it is now.