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Post by kv1e on Feb 14, 2013 0:08:17 GMT -5
The RAW of the PDF would seem to say no. but it could be a handicap for both sides so you all can decide
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Post by shoey109 on Feb 14, 2013 7:04:10 GMT -5
The RAW of the PDF would seem to say no. but it could be a handicap for both sides so you all can decide What you are saying is that you just created a poll to nerf snipers in all of your games. Starting at the center line. You just made a no fly zone a foot deep for snipers for the entire game. Snipers are independent teams. So all other independent teams should be nerfed the same way. Why should infantry companies have snipers in there list when you can not effectively use them. Snipers do not get to move around in version three to get a better spot. They just get redeployed in the starting step from your sniper pool. You can drive a man to drink heavily. Will |
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Post by kv1e on Feb 14, 2013 9:45:09 GMT -5
;D LOL life is funny sometimes, yesterday somebody wrote a post
saying "that I had a point and the he was going to change his list to eliminate a sniper from it." Now he has changed his mind in a big way
Let me be as clear as I can to the members of the Committee.
The poll only applies to Saturdays game, it will not apply to any other game, despite somebodies claim to the contrary.
I suppose I could have simply ruled one way or other but I enjoy a little, very small, drama.
Temis
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Post by shoey109 on Feb 14, 2013 10:02:01 GMT -5
;D LOL life is funny sometimes, yesterday somebody wrote a post saying " that I had a point and the he was going to change his list to eliminate a sniper from it." Now he has changed his mind in a big way Let me be as clear as I can to the members of the Committee. The poll only applies to Saturdays game, it will not apply to any other game, despite somebodies claim to the contrary. I suppose I could have simply ruled one way or other but I enjoy a little, very small, drama. Temis I changed my mind after delving into the rules after I made it home. When you tinker with one rule. It cascades into the meaning of other rules in the book. Then again Temis. The interpretations of rules by you, seems to always lead to drama. That is why I posted the rules on sturmtigers. I do not want to get into a rule clash on my sturmtigers on the day of the game. Since when did we ever get into a clash of rules where our independent teams deployed. They always in the past have been placed in deployment areas where our platoons deployed. We started this drama about snipers. Since they are independent teams. You have since involved all independent teams being deployed with the front line troops in your poll. Will |
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Post by kv1e on Feb 14, 2013 11:57:55 GMT -5
Read the poll the question is "should independent teams be able to deploy with the front line troops" that means they will have an option.
In any case we will follow the results of the poll.
Temis
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Post by hardihar on Feb 14, 2013 12:14:47 GMT -5
Even though snipers are independent teams, they have special deployment rules when they first fire. At which point you apply the rules for sniper deployment and ignore anything that isnt part of the sniper deployment rules. It doesnt matter what you do with your command teams because snipers are dealt with differently, really end of story.
Now you can debate what is no mans land, and i cant remember if there is a rule for that in the book or not, or if its listed in the deployment sections of the scenarios, or is it labeled in the scenario rules for this weekend?
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Post by shoey109 on Feb 14, 2013 12:21:54 GMT -5
Read the poll the question is "should independent teams be able to deploy with the front line troops" that means they will have an option. In any case we will follow the results of the poll. Temis Holy smokes Batman!! There should have never been a poll on that silly question. The reason for the poll question is a easy way out for you. That is because you are losing the argument about sniper teams. When I pointed out they are like every other independent team. Then those independent teams are govern by there own rules and deployment rules in the rule book. I think Jeff also had a great opinion about his thoughts about the issue. I also like that Jeff pointed to a mission which could also help resolve this issue. I am just a little more confrontational about a perceived unjustified interpretation of the rules by you. Will |
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Post by shoey109 on Feb 14, 2013 12:30:51 GMT -5
Even though snipers are independent teams, they have special deployment rules when they first fire. At which point you apply the rules for sniper deployment and ignore anything that isnt part of the sniper deployment rules. It doesnt matter what you do with your command teams because snipers are dealt with differently, really end of story. Now you can debate what is no mans land, and i cant remember if there is a rule for that in the book or not, or if its listed in the deployment sections of the scenarios, or is it labeled in the scenario rules for this weekend? This will be the first time we have played with Snipers using the Version 3 rule set. They have totally changed how Snipers work in version 3 compared to Version 2. Then again I welcome your thoughts on the issue. Holy Smokes Batman, did I really say that? WIll |
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Post by hardihar on Feb 14, 2013 12:51:43 GMT -5
I was reading the version 3 rules, and its very clear on page 110 of the rule book that the snipers have aa special deployment rule and that is in your deployment zone or no mans land no closer than 4 inches of an opponents team when you would deploy reserves. Independent teams have nothing to do with sniper deployment beyond limiting where they can show up if its an opponents IT.
so in this game its the first 6 inches of the table, and depending upon what is no mans land perhaps the middle area or not. It really is that simple and clean a rule.
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Post by shoey109 on Feb 14, 2013 14:08:34 GMT -5
I was reading the version 3 rules, and its very clear on page 110 of the rule book that the snipers have aa special deployment rule and that is in your deployment zone or no mans land no closer than 4 inches of an opponents team when you would deploy reserves. Independent teams have nothing to do with sniper deployment beyond limiting where they can show up if its an opponents IT. so in this game its the first 6 inches of the table, and depending upon what is no mans land perhaps the middle area or not. It really is that simple and clean a rule. Snipers always work up front. I noticed you used deployment zone. The rule reads deployment area. This game has two deployment areas. The front area where our front line troops and the rear area. Will |
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Post by hardihar on Feb 14, 2013 14:33:04 GMT -5
Look at the map the only area labled deployment zone is the first 12 inches. the rest is something different were you place the front line troops, and no place is labeled No Mans land, and the rules for No Mans land says it will be labeled as such.
Again very clear and straight forward, rules as written with out reading anything extra into it. Now if you want to change the rules or interpret intent thats something else and occasionally we all go down that path.
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Post by kv1e on Feb 14, 2013 15:07:25 GMT -5
Thank you Chuck
Temis
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Post by shoey109 on Feb 14, 2013 15:14:04 GMT -5
Look at the map the only area labled deployment zone is the first 12 inches. the rest is something different were you place the front line troops, and no place is labeled No Mans land, and the rules for No Mans land says it will be labeled as such. Again very clear and straight forward, rules as written with out reading anything extra into it. Now if you want to change the rules or interpret intent thats something else and occasionally we all go down that path. Then snipers would be useless according to the rules. Snipers can not move in version 3. This brings us back to the independent teams and where they can be deployed. You and Temis are wrong in how the rules are being applied. The snipers deploy after the game starts. They can not be deployed near 4 inches of a enemy team. How in the world will a enemy team be within 4 inches of a sniper team in the rear deployment area on your turn one. Will |
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Post by shoey109 on Feb 14, 2013 15:26:55 GMT -5
Look at the map the only area labled deployment zone is the first 12 inches. the rest is something different were you place the front line troops, and no place is labeled No Mans land, and the rules for No Mans land says it will be labeled as such. Again very clear and straight forward, rules as written with out reading anything extra into it. Now if you want to change the rules or interpret intent thats something else and occasionally we all go down that path. The first 6 inches is a area you deploy your front line troops. The sniper rules say Deployment area. You guys are focused on it being a zone. The rules are clearly defined on page 110 a sniper team is deployed in a deployment area in the starting step and they must be 4 inches away from a enemy team. Not a ZONE!! I don't know why Chuck reads the same rule book and gets ZONE out of AREA? I am thinking that Saturday is going to be a wasted day. I am not the only player that will pack up his troops and leave the store if this whole day will be spent arguing the rules with Temis. Will |
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Post by kv1e on Feb 14, 2013 15:47:54 GMT -5
Any pregame rules question should be brought up before Saturday.
We will not revisit old disputes on Saturday.
The placement of Independent teams will be settled by the poll which I have not voted in, I will probably only vote to break a tie.
Any rules disputes on Saturday will be settled by the RAW if that
is possible, If not then I will settle it and the game will move on. There wil be no prolonged arguments.
50% chance of Snow showers on Saturday.
Cheers
Temis
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